This was so well-crafted and laid out, Matt! Thanks for inviting me to "empty my brain" of all things Abacab-by! I will tell you, having just remembered it (ooh, a bonus for the comment-readers!)....I still don't know if the following is apocryphal, or indeed has played out to be truth after lo these many decades:
At the time, we were hearing the album's title (and song title) came from the chord sequence and keys that the song landed on: A, B, A, C, A, B. Again, I can't remember if the fog of time has discounted that, but I DO remember that, distinctly, as something that was running through the rock press of the day, and floated, too, by avid listeners of the day...including we record store workers to some customers who wondered what the title meant!
Matt....I love the idea of doing this for the various Genesis albums...and, I certainly hope our readers respond in the affirmative for doing more of these! Thanks again for your wonderful idea and for bringing me in for it! This is why I'm here, and I love taking advantage of my still-sharp and still-working long-term memory! Let's do this while I still have a firm grip on it!💪😁👍
I found Genesis when ABACAB was released and have everything except Revelation but Duke is my favorite studio album of theirs, with THREE Sides Live (US version) being my favorite album period.
Re: your question - I’d love to get his take on their entire catalog.
Thank you, David! You have some great choices as fave albums! And, if Matt gives us the 👍 for going deep into some other Genesis albums, I'm on board, most certainly! Thanks for enjoying this one, David, and stay tuned to Matt's "Best Music of All Time" for his future articles, as well as the how'n'when we pick back up on the Genesis hunt!
Great Googlie Moogile... 👍 No doubt about it you two can make any analysis riveting! I say make more magic music journalism together. I had a Cable Music show with my buddy and we wanted a second show called Breaking Records where we'd listen to new releases and either praise it or break it against the wall. As far as pre-releases I've had a few, still have SRV&DT's Texas Flood from Epic on cassette. Part of my job at Island was duping pre-releases after hours in President Ron Shapiro's office. Me mysrlf snd I kicking back with a big stack of interconnected cassette decks.
I try to buy only digital now and keep the physical to a minmum. Still listen to LPs, CDs and Cassettes but all stocked up on plastic. But boy do I miss the old retail model. YGM Day Job with Morocco 🇲🇦 had a lightbox at Tower 4th & Broadway right next to White Zombie's perennial hit La Sexorcisto! Read 'em & WeepI
Thank you, Steve! I appreciate your comment, as well as the vote of approval for future Genesis dives! Your "Breaking Records" sounds like it would be fun....and, could work on YouTube! Your keeping physical media to a minimum sounds like what a lot of people are doing these days....certainly sounds practical from a storage-space POV, if nothing else! Thanks again!
Not sure how this slipped by me back in Sept, but wanted to say how much I enjoyed this. And how appropriately timed it was. I had just put a '77 appearance on the Mike Douglas show out into Substack on Notes. I don't think I've played any Genesis album as much as Abacab, so maybe it's my fave. But I love how it brings all of what Genesis was in the 70s (experimental and arty) into the new wave era (experimental and arty, but more defined hooks).
Thank you, Emm....thanks for readin''n'commentin'! Matt's one of our best, and I'm honoured to have been asked to contribute to this! Sounds like "Abacab" just might be your favorite! I love your last sentence, which encapsulates their '80s sound so succinctly!
With Banks in charge of the keyboards, he did a fine job in making sure the up-front sound of the band reflected the decade's heavy-lean into synths! "More defined hooks" nails it, too! These were such skilled songwriters, that they were able to merge and blend their sound into the prevailing winds, and mark some new song territory (oft-copied, in time!) while they were at it! They kept their melodies tight, and the chords within, tight, as well.
No one will (likely) notice or mention this (out there in the world writ-large), but beyond the Rock Hall of Fame (which, thankfully, they're IN), there's no reason they can't and shouldn't be inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.....there. I said it, and I'll take it to my grave! Just checked, Emm, and Phil IS actually in the SHOF! Fine....I'm sure that's all about his '80s hits, both w/Genesis AND solo! But, what about the rest of the gang!?!? Thanks again, Emm!
I don't know that classic Genesis would ever get in, but certainly the trio would. I would have to think Peter Gabriel would too? But I never check those things. It always comes back to "do I love this?" The rest melts away. I will say your point about Banks is notable. His colorations get overlooked because most people either focus on Collins or remember Rutherford was a pop hit maker. But the way the synths sound on those 80s smashes reveal how his arrangements and his playing were vital to the hits. And they make the Genesis hits distinct from the Collins or Mike + Mechanics hits. But when they still needed to stretch (Like Home by the Sea), Banks could use those synths in ways that reminded you they hadn't strayed far from their prog roots.
Good points, Emm. "Home By the Sea" is a great example of still reaching back, just a tad, to those "stretched-out" '70s arrangements, and keeping "old" fans still riveted, I'm thinking! I loved "Home By the Sea," and enjoyed singing it at karaoke, often, a dozen years ago when I did that virtually nightly!
I also enjoyed seeing the band play that one live (Dodger Stadium/L.A.) in '92. Phil always had a great verbal intro for it: "This is a song about a haunted house....high on a cliff, overlooking a foreboding sea...." or, thereabouts! Talk about setting the scene!
Abacab was an interesting time for the band, and for me as a fan. I became a Genesis fan in March 1976 with the release of A Trick Of The Tail. I fell in love with it, and then with Wind And Wuthering, which followed nine months later. I immediately dug into their back catalog with Peter, and then was on board at the start of Peter’s solo career in 1977.
So, as 1978 approached with news of a new album and tour (ATTWT was my first Genesis, and first ever, rock concert) I was hoping for more of what came out of 1976’s two stellar releases. But I immediately noticed the change, particularly with Follow You Follow Me, of course, but also with the song length which had shortened significantly. I dismissed FYFM, and embraced Burning Rope - the latter more in the mould of what came before (my opinion of those two songs would reverse in later years).
With Duke, I noticed the change immediately. Not just the music, but with Phil’s voice which had become a little bit more gravely in the two years that had passed. Turn It On Again was the lead single ahead of the release of the album in March of 1980; and while I guess I liked it at the time, it certainly was different. That and Duchess are currently my favorite songs from that album. Probably the only ones I go back to repeatedly. I rarely spin that album.
Which brings us to Abacab. I had just started my freshman year in college a few weeks prior and was anxiously awaiting its release. The title track was the first song I heard, in its edited form (I now prefer the single version to the long extended version. Tony’s keys are a bit monotonous). Again, I liked it OK, but it was a huge difference, even from Duke. And then when I heard No Reply At All, I knew the band had officially taken a left turn. I think Me and Sarah Jane and Dodo were probably my favorites at the time. Dodo was the obvious go-to for us prog lovers who missed the mid 70s stuff, but Sarah Jane was great too. I think the former holds up today, the latter not so much. And including Whodunnit over You Might Recall was brilliant.
In retrospect, and I’ve had this opinion for about the last 10 years, I think Abacab is a pretty good album. It’s not my style of music relative to the Genesis I prefer from the 70s nor what I listen to today, but it’s a solid release. They had the balls to make a complete change from what they were doing and reinvented themselves - and I respect that.
I’ve always felt that the albums that followed Abacab were a cop out. I can honestly say that if I never again heard one song from the self titled 1983 release, Invisible Touch, or We Can’t Dance, I wouldn’t care. They are three forgettable albums, in my opinion (with no disrespect to those who enjoy them). I think they wussed out from the drastic changes they made on Abacab and tried too hard to please old fans along with their newly acquired pop fans, resulting in very lightweight music.
Today, when I’m spinning vinyl and decide to play Genesis, it’s usually going to be Selling England By The Pound (their best), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, A Trick Of The Tail, or Seconds Out. And then the rest of their 70s catalog. But maybe I’ll give Abacab a spin soon since it’s been a while.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I’ll always love this band. And I think I can comfortably say that, even though I prefer one era to the other. ;-)
So well-said and well-reasoned, Greg! Much appreciated! Your “In retrospect” and “I’ve always felt” paragraphs are very well-articulated, and I certainly can’t/don’t disagree!
There just aren’t that many artists for whom I’d offer (or want to…they deserve it after all the thrills and joy throughout the years!) this much grace and even forgiveness….Jethro Tull would be another. I fell off their wagon round about “Too Young to Die” ‘77 or so. But, fine…..what Ian and the gang gave me in the decade before is more than worth me appreciating the fact that they kept plugging! After all, Ian “taught me flute”….I took one lesson in the early-’70s, and proceeded (as Ian did!) to learn, by ear, every one of his flute licks through “A Passion Play” during my high school years (and being lead singer and flute player in the band I was in at the time)!
Back to Genesis…..I think they entered the ‘80s with “good intentions” i.e. “let’s turn our songwriting to be more radio-and MTV-friendly” they may have said….but, after Phil gaining solo success, and the decade progressing (and not wanting to be “left behind”), I lean more to the side that they may have been lured by the charts (and their label) to be/become more commercial with their output….and wrench their writing away from the innovative (within a pop framework) and a bit more to “going for the hit” as the ‘80s wore on. Almost can’t blame them….it CAN become intoxicating, I reckon…chasing the hits and headlines.
Anyway, great comment again, Greg, and I’d love to have you join us, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE! ‘Spect you’d fit right in!
I’m sure I would, Brad. Thanks for the comment. I eat this stuff up. I suspect sometimes to the detriment of others. ;-)
Ironically, as I head toward my mid 60s, I’m really more of a fan of music from the past 10 or 20 years, and also the 1990s, than I am of the progressive rock that I so loved in the 70s. Don’t get me wrong, if I’m playing progressive rock it’s primarily going to be Genesis, Yes and Jethro Tull. I love the music of all three bands. But not much else in that genre, and nothing that might be considered “new” progressive rock (Tool?). It’s really not my kind of music at all. I’m more of an indie/alternative music lover today. To give you an idea, I have a 13 hour playlist that contains nothing but songs from this decade - 2020 to 2026. It’s really my go to music.
But I love all music. Jazz and classical included. So bring on the reviews and I’ll chime in when I feel it’s appropriate. 😉
Interesting observations! I was unaware of Genesis before their 1978 hit "Follow You, Follow Me." I think "Duke" is when they really took off though. Like Brad I was also a fan of "Turn it On Again." I was always surprised that it wasn't a bigger hit than it was. "Misunderstanding" was the big one from that album, which I liked. "Invisible Touch" had a lot of great pop hits on it too. I started falling away from the band after that though.
Thanks for readin'n'commentin', Dan! The consummate "album band" in the '70s, they "turned into" so much more of a "singles band" in the '80s, which means they certainly had a definite AM-radio presence that they never had until the late-'70s (speaking U.S., anyway), with your correctly-tapped "Follow You"!
Such a fascinating career for a band....other bands (or single artists) may have skirted around a similar FM-to-AM track during those same time periods, but no one came close to having that, quite literally, be their cast-in-cement bio from one decade to the other! But, their songwriting brilliance through it all, IMO, is the jaw-dropping element that colours their impressive life story!
While I fell in love with Genesis back in the Gabriel era, I still enjoyed their gradual transition to pop, which started with And Then There Were Three. Abacab had some great deep cuts such as Dodo and Keep It Dark that seemed simple, but were not. No Reply was a really well-crafted pop song. The title track was also good.
You get it, John!! So many don't. The key is simple craftsmanship. Whatever we call the genre, however different the song and arrangement might be, there was still rapt attention to the actual composition (in their '80s), just as there was, in spades, in the '70s!
I've just been doing some digging, and it turns out the band stopped playing "Abacab"....
Per A.I.: "Abacab" was a live staple through the 1980s, last played on stage during the 1987 Invisible Touch Tour. Reason? "Collins stated he no longer felt connected to the song, disliked it, and admitted he did not know what the lyrics meant. It was also excluded from their final Last Domino? tour."
Here they are at Wembley Stadium in '87, "before the song was retired"....unclear if this was the last time they played it live: They seem to have upped the tempo slightly here, but, when Phil joins Chester behind the drums, about 1/2-way through, I think I'm detecting still another gear they're going into! The ferocity that Phil and Chester get to toward the approaching end of the song is astounding to behold, not to mention exhilarating!! I'm a staunch "table-drum-along-with-Phil" guy, and I just about banged my index fingers to a pulp against this formica tabletop!! But, loved every second! Enjoy, and thanks so much, John!👉 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV2CkDzPd1k&t=498s
This was so well-crafted and laid out, Matt! Thanks for inviting me to "empty my brain" of all things Abacab-by! I will tell you, having just remembered it (ooh, a bonus for the comment-readers!)....I still don't know if the following is apocryphal, or indeed has played out to be truth after lo these many decades:
At the time, we were hearing the album's title (and song title) came from the chord sequence and keys that the song landed on: A, B, A, C, A, B. Again, I can't remember if the fog of time has discounted that, but I DO remember that, distinctly, as something that was running through the rock press of the day, and floated, too, by avid listeners of the day...including we record store workers to some customers who wondered what the title meant!
Matt....I love the idea of doing this for the various Genesis albums...and, I certainly hope our readers respond in the affirmative for doing more of these! Thanks again for your wonderful idea and for bringing me in for it! This is why I'm here, and I love taking advantage of my still-sharp and still-working long-term memory! Let's do this while I still have a firm grip on it!💪😁👍
I found Genesis when ABACAB was released and have everything except Revelation but Duke is my favorite studio album of theirs, with THREE Sides Live (US version) being my favorite album period.
Re: your question - I’d love to get his take on their entire catalog.
Thank you, David! You have some great choices as fave albums! And, if Matt gives us the 👍 for going deep into some other Genesis albums, I'm on board, most certainly! Thanks for enjoying this one, David, and stay tuned to Matt's "Best Music of All Time" for his future articles, as well as the how'n'when we pick back up on the Genesis hunt!
Great Googlie Moogile... 👍 No doubt about it you two can make any analysis riveting! I say make more magic music journalism together. I had a Cable Music show with my buddy and we wanted a second show called Breaking Records where we'd listen to new releases and either praise it or break it against the wall. As far as pre-releases I've had a few, still have SRV&DT's Texas Flood from Epic on cassette. Part of my job at Island was duping pre-releases after hours in President Ron Shapiro's office. Me mysrlf snd I kicking back with a big stack of interconnected cassette decks.
I try to buy only digital now and keep the physical to a minmum. Still listen to LPs, CDs and Cassettes but all stocked up on plastic. But boy do I miss the old retail model. YGM Day Job with Morocco 🇲🇦 had a lightbox at Tower 4th & Broadway right next to White Zombie's perennial hit La Sexorcisto! Read 'em & WeepI
Thank you, Steve! I appreciate your comment, as well as the vote of approval for future Genesis dives! Your "Breaking Records" sounds like it would be fun....and, could work on YouTube! Your keeping physical media to a minimum sounds like what a lot of people are doing these days....certainly sounds practical from a storage-space POV, if nothing else! Thanks again!
Not sure how this slipped by me back in Sept, but wanted to say how much I enjoyed this. And how appropriately timed it was. I had just put a '77 appearance on the Mike Douglas show out into Substack on Notes. I don't think I've played any Genesis album as much as Abacab, so maybe it's my fave. But I love how it brings all of what Genesis was in the 70s (experimental and arty) into the new wave era (experimental and arty, but more defined hooks).
Thank you, Emm....thanks for readin''n'commentin'! Matt's one of our best, and I'm honoured to have been asked to contribute to this! Sounds like "Abacab" just might be your favorite! I love your last sentence, which encapsulates their '80s sound so succinctly!
With Banks in charge of the keyboards, he did a fine job in making sure the up-front sound of the band reflected the decade's heavy-lean into synths! "More defined hooks" nails it, too! These were such skilled songwriters, that they were able to merge and blend their sound into the prevailing winds, and mark some new song territory (oft-copied, in time!) while they were at it! They kept their melodies tight, and the chords within, tight, as well.
No one will (likely) notice or mention this (out there in the world writ-large), but beyond the Rock Hall of Fame (which, thankfully, they're IN), there's no reason they can't and shouldn't be inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.....there. I said it, and I'll take it to my grave! Just checked, Emm, and Phil IS actually in the SHOF! Fine....I'm sure that's all about his '80s hits, both w/Genesis AND solo! But, what about the rest of the gang!?!? Thanks again, Emm!
I don't know that classic Genesis would ever get in, but certainly the trio would. I would have to think Peter Gabriel would too? But I never check those things. It always comes back to "do I love this?" The rest melts away. I will say your point about Banks is notable. His colorations get overlooked because most people either focus on Collins or remember Rutherford was a pop hit maker. But the way the synths sound on those 80s smashes reveal how his arrangements and his playing were vital to the hits. And they make the Genesis hits distinct from the Collins or Mike + Mechanics hits. But when they still needed to stretch (Like Home by the Sea), Banks could use those synths in ways that reminded you they hadn't strayed far from their prog roots.
Good points, Emm. "Home By the Sea" is a great example of still reaching back, just a tad, to those "stretched-out" '70s arrangements, and keeping "old" fans still riveted, I'm thinking! I loved "Home By the Sea," and enjoyed singing it at karaoke, often, a dozen years ago when I did that virtually nightly!
I also enjoyed seeing the band play that one live (Dodger Stadium/L.A.) in '92. Phil always had a great verbal intro for it: "This is a song about a haunted house....high on a cliff, overlooking a foreboding sea...." or, thereabouts! Talk about setting the scene!
Abacab was an interesting time for the band, and for me as a fan. I became a Genesis fan in March 1976 with the release of A Trick Of The Tail. I fell in love with it, and then with Wind And Wuthering, which followed nine months later. I immediately dug into their back catalog with Peter, and then was on board at the start of Peter’s solo career in 1977.
So, as 1978 approached with news of a new album and tour (ATTWT was my first Genesis, and first ever, rock concert) I was hoping for more of what came out of 1976’s two stellar releases. But I immediately noticed the change, particularly with Follow You Follow Me, of course, but also with the song length which had shortened significantly. I dismissed FYFM, and embraced Burning Rope - the latter more in the mould of what came before (my opinion of those two songs would reverse in later years).
With Duke, I noticed the change immediately. Not just the music, but with Phil’s voice which had become a little bit more gravely in the two years that had passed. Turn It On Again was the lead single ahead of the release of the album in March of 1980; and while I guess I liked it at the time, it certainly was different. That and Duchess are currently my favorite songs from that album. Probably the only ones I go back to repeatedly. I rarely spin that album.
Which brings us to Abacab. I had just started my freshman year in college a few weeks prior and was anxiously awaiting its release. The title track was the first song I heard, in its edited form (I now prefer the single version to the long extended version. Tony’s keys are a bit monotonous). Again, I liked it OK, but it was a huge difference, even from Duke. And then when I heard No Reply At All, I knew the band had officially taken a left turn. I think Me and Sarah Jane and Dodo were probably my favorites at the time. Dodo was the obvious go-to for us prog lovers who missed the mid 70s stuff, but Sarah Jane was great too. I think the former holds up today, the latter not so much. And including Whodunnit over You Might Recall was brilliant.
In retrospect, and I’ve had this opinion for about the last 10 years, I think Abacab is a pretty good album. It’s not my style of music relative to the Genesis I prefer from the 70s nor what I listen to today, but it’s a solid release. They had the balls to make a complete change from what they were doing and reinvented themselves - and I respect that.
I’ve always felt that the albums that followed Abacab were a cop out. I can honestly say that if I never again heard one song from the self titled 1983 release, Invisible Touch, or We Can’t Dance, I wouldn’t care. They are three forgettable albums, in my opinion (with no disrespect to those who enjoy them). I think they wussed out from the drastic changes they made on Abacab and tried too hard to please old fans along with their newly acquired pop fans, resulting in very lightweight music.
Today, when I’m spinning vinyl and decide to play Genesis, it’s usually going to be Selling England By The Pound (their best), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, A Trick Of The Tail, or Seconds Out. And then the rest of their 70s catalog. But maybe I’ll give Abacab a spin soon since it’s been a while.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I’ll always love this band. And I think I can comfortably say that, even though I prefer one era to the other. ;-)
Cheers.
So well-said and well-reasoned, Greg! Much appreciated! Your “In retrospect” and “I’ve always felt” paragraphs are very well-articulated, and I certainly can’t/don’t disagree!
There just aren’t that many artists for whom I’d offer (or want to…they deserve it after all the thrills and joy throughout the years!) this much grace and even forgiveness….Jethro Tull would be another. I fell off their wagon round about “Too Young to Die” ‘77 or so. But, fine…..what Ian and the gang gave me in the decade before is more than worth me appreciating the fact that they kept plugging! After all, Ian “taught me flute”….I took one lesson in the early-’70s, and proceeded (as Ian did!) to learn, by ear, every one of his flute licks through “A Passion Play” during my high school years (and being lead singer and flute player in the band I was in at the time)!
Back to Genesis…..I think they entered the ‘80s with “good intentions” i.e. “let’s turn our songwriting to be more radio-and MTV-friendly” they may have said….but, after Phil gaining solo success, and the decade progressing (and not wanting to be “left behind”), I lean more to the side that they may have been lured by the charts (and their label) to be/become more commercial with their output….and wrench their writing away from the innovative (within a pop framework) and a bit more to “going for the hit” as the ‘80s wore on. Almost can’t blame them….it CAN become intoxicating, I reckon…chasing the hits and headlines.
Anyway, great comment again, Greg, and I’d love to have you join us, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE! ‘Spect you’d fit right in!
I’m sure I would, Brad. Thanks for the comment. I eat this stuff up. I suspect sometimes to the detriment of others. ;-)
Ironically, as I head toward my mid 60s, I’m really more of a fan of music from the past 10 or 20 years, and also the 1990s, than I am of the progressive rock that I so loved in the 70s. Don’t get me wrong, if I’m playing progressive rock it’s primarily going to be Genesis, Yes and Jethro Tull. I love the music of all three bands. But not much else in that genre, and nothing that might be considered “new” progressive rock (Tool?). It’s really not my kind of music at all. I’m more of an indie/alternative music lover today. To give you an idea, I have a 13 hour playlist that contains nothing but songs from this decade - 2020 to 2026. It’s really my go to music.
But I love all music. Jazz and classical included. So bring on the reviews and I’ll chime in when I feel it’s appropriate. 😉
Interesting observations! I was unaware of Genesis before their 1978 hit "Follow You, Follow Me." I think "Duke" is when they really took off though. Like Brad I was also a fan of "Turn it On Again." I was always surprised that it wasn't a bigger hit than it was. "Misunderstanding" was the big one from that album, which I liked. "Invisible Touch" had a lot of great pop hits on it too. I started falling away from the band after that though.
Thanks for readin'n'commentin', Dan! The consummate "album band" in the '70s, they "turned into" so much more of a "singles band" in the '80s, which means they certainly had a definite AM-radio presence that they never had until the late-'70s (speaking U.S., anyway), with your correctly-tapped "Follow You"!
Such a fascinating career for a band....other bands (or single artists) may have skirted around a similar FM-to-AM track during those same time periods, but no one came close to having that, quite literally, be their cast-in-cement bio from one decade to the other! But, their songwriting brilliance through it all, IMO, is the jaw-dropping element that colours their impressive life story!
While I fell in love with Genesis back in the Gabriel era, I still enjoyed their gradual transition to pop, which started with And Then There Were Three. Abacab had some great deep cuts such as Dodo and Keep It Dark that seemed simple, but were not. No Reply was a really well-crafted pop song. The title track was also good.
You get it, John!! So many don't. The key is simple craftsmanship. Whatever we call the genre, however different the song and arrangement might be, there was still rapt attention to the actual composition (in their '80s), just as there was, in spades, in the '70s!
I've just been doing some digging, and it turns out the band stopped playing "Abacab"....
Per A.I.: "Abacab" was a live staple through the 1980s, last played on stage during the 1987 Invisible Touch Tour. Reason? "Collins stated he no longer felt connected to the song, disliked it, and admitted he did not know what the lyrics meant. It was also excluded from their final Last Domino? tour."
Here they are at Wembley Stadium in '87, "before the song was retired"....unclear if this was the last time they played it live: They seem to have upped the tempo slightly here, but, when Phil joins Chester behind the drums, about 1/2-way through, I think I'm detecting still another gear they're going into! The ferocity that Phil and Chester get to toward the approaching end of the song is astounding to behold, not to mention exhilarating!! I'm a staunch "table-drum-along-with-Phil" guy, and I just about banged my index fingers to a pulp against this formica tabletop!! But, loved every second! Enjoy, and thanks so much, John!👉 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV2CkDzPd1k&t=498s