To answer your earlier question, yes, the Reagan years were that puritanical with people like Tipper Gore and the PMRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center) seemingly questioning just about everything. I was ten when Reagan came in and 18 when he left and much of that period was defined by these moralizing whackadoodles. Fine if you don’t like the music or you find it offensive. Don’t listen to it then. Just don’t constrain my choices with your definition of morality.
I have such a vivid memory of spinning that Madonna debut when it came out. It’s probably been decades since I listened to it in its entirety, which I’m doing right now, and I’d forgotten how much I enjoyed it. I’ve never even heard of Rebel Heart, so that’s next up on my listening list.
I agree with some of the points you raise about each album, but I wouldn’t have ranked Like a Virgin and Music so low.
I can also see that your Top 5 will include, precisely, the five records most praised by certain intellectual circles (not necessarily Madonna fans). Sorry but I had to say it 😅
Apart from the points raised in the other comments about the 80s, I’d like to add that Madonna’s catholic upbringing has had a massive influence in her work throughout her entire career. It’s from that angle that Like a Virgin should be looked at, in my humble opinion. Religious themes are recurring in her repertoire, particularly when it comes to female sexuality.
I am sure you are familiar with this speech she gave explaining “what the fuss was all about” but I’m leaving it here in case anyone is interested:
Haha, it’s true; I suppose you can deduce what’s left and assess the entire list to a degree now. I would say, however, that there are a lot of fans who align with at least some of the picks, based on community threads and discussions I’ve read in my research anyway.
The religious aspect that you bring up is absolutely fair and may warrant some additions to my write-ups over time. I cover some of that ground in my review of an album in the Top 5 (I’ll let you guess which one that is), published last year. There’s also a fascinating discussion to be had about how those religious leanings informed how her music and image was marketed back in the day, but that’s its own separate article.
Regarding the campiness, it stood out to me in both albums I mentioned it in, though I meant to highlight them as individual observations, not a double negative.
Thanks for your reply. Of course there will be fans who align with you on some of your picks, especially on a public forum, and particularly your Top 5, as those have been her most critically acclaimed records. They just happen to be, invariably, non-Madonna fan faves, as well. I just find it interesting that your picks seem to align so much with the establishment, that’s all.
Definitely agree the religious element is a separate and very interesting discussion.
I don’t think you’ve understood my question on the use of the word “camp”. I didn’t say you used it as a double negative. I said you used it twice in the text. In both cases, you used it to describe a weakness/low point/disadvantage, and you contrasted it with something positive.
When talking about Material Girl:
“Say what you want about its inherent campiness, but there’s no denying that “Material Girl” is an 80s pop gem.”
When talking about Rebel Heart:
“Other highlights, like “Unapologetic Bitch” and “Body Shop,” work on the strength of Madonna’s sheer will and performance savvy. In lesser hands, they would’ve gone full camp (though I’m sure she wouldn’t have had a huge problem with that, either) and, in terms of a listening experience you can invest in, gone off the rails pretty quickly.”
In other words, “the song may be camp but it’s a bang, and these Rebel Hearts songs, in other hands, would have sounded really camp, but they don’t, *fortunately*, and that’s why I am praising them”.
Considering Madonna’s impact not just as an artist but as a gay icon, and especially, how influential she’s been for so many gay guys (myself included) who, thanks to her, felt more encouraged to express — and simply be —themselves, I’m not sure your realise the weight and implications of what you are saying.
Using the word camp to describe her work is not only an unfortunate choice of word in the circumstances but it’s also predominantly tinged with straight male privilege.
Wow, some great albums in here, she really is prolific. Some great albums in here too. Although I love vinyl I love seeing this and clicking on Spotify too.
Well Matt, I've not been a fan of Madonna's last few albums so those two would go right to the bottom for me. I was in my last year of college when "Like a Virgin" was released. People in my circles were pretty into the whole album. I think the wider culture had a harder time with the "sexy" video for the title track than the song itself. Most of the tunes on the album were very catchy making for a fun pop album. Not adventurous as some of her others but satisfying at the time. I agree that the last three songs are a bit forgettable.
Thanks for chiming in, Dan. Lots of support for Like a Virgin in the comments, I do enjoy seeing grassroots support for records when I do these series. :)
"Were the Reagan days that puritanical? Were parents back then that afraid of young women being open about their sexuality? Let me know what I’m missing in the comments."
In a word: YES. It's hard to overstate the sort of perpetual state of moral panic people were in over what the kids were doing. Things that wouldn't even make you blink today were the stuff of scandals.
Also: Fair point about Like A Virgin's Side B, though I'd make the case that Dress You Up (B1) is one of her all time best.
I refer to Madame X as Portugese Life and while it's definitely not my favorite, there are some gems on there. The overuse of autotune really turned me off so a track like "Extreme Occident" where I feel like her real voice shines through, is just so good.
But yes, i do agree, it's one of her least accessible albums.
Really enjoying this series Matt!
To answer your earlier question, yes, the Reagan years were that puritanical with people like Tipper Gore and the PMRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center) seemingly questioning just about everything. I was ten when Reagan came in and 18 when he left and much of that period was defined by these moralizing whackadoodles. Fine if you don’t like the music or you find it offensive. Don’t listen to it then. Just don’t constrain my choices with your definition of morality.
I have such a vivid memory of spinning that Madonna debut when it came out. It’s probably been decades since I listened to it in its entirety, which I’m doing right now, and I’d forgotten how much I enjoyed it. I’ve never even heard of Rebel Heart, so that’s next up on my listening list.
Thanks for reading and commenting, Mark! Always appreciate your insights.
You nailed it, Mark! Moralizing whackadoodles indeed!
I agree with some of the points you raise about each album, but I wouldn’t have ranked Like a Virgin and Music so low.
I can also see that your Top 5 will include, precisely, the five records most praised by certain intellectual circles (not necessarily Madonna fans). Sorry but I had to say it 😅
Apart from the points raised in the other comments about the 80s, I’d like to add that Madonna’s catholic upbringing has had a massive influence in her work throughout her entire career. It’s from that angle that Like a Virgin should be looked at, in my humble opinion. Religious themes are recurring in her repertoire, particularly when it comes to female sexuality.
I am sure you are familiar with this speech she gave explaining “what the fuss was all about” but I’m leaving it here in case anyone is interested:
https://youtu.be/c6Xgbh2E0NM?si=ngwKxl7yO9G_R39o
Finally, I note you used the word “camp” twice as if it was something negative. Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
Haha, it’s true; I suppose you can deduce what’s left and assess the entire list to a degree now. I would say, however, that there are a lot of fans who align with at least some of the picks, based on community threads and discussions I’ve read in my research anyway.
The religious aspect that you bring up is absolutely fair and may warrant some additions to my write-ups over time. I cover some of that ground in my review of an album in the Top 5 (I’ll let you guess which one that is), published last year. There’s also a fascinating discussion to be had about how those religious leanings informed how her music and image was marketed back in the day, but that’s its own separate article.
Regarding the campiness, it stood out to me in both albums I mentioned it in, though I meant to highlight them as individual observations, not a double negative.
Cheers!
Thanks for your reply. Of course there will be fans who align with you on some of your picks, especially on a public forum, and particularly your Top 5, as those have been her most critically acclaimed records. They just happen to be, invariably, non-Madonna fan faves, as well. I just find it interesting that your picks seem to align so much with the establishment, that’s all.
Definitely agree the religious element is a separate and very interesting discussion.
I don’t think you’ve understood my question on the use of the word “camp”. I didn’t say you used it as a double negative. I said you used it twice in the text. In both cases, you used it to describe a weakness/low point/disadvantage, and you contrasted it with something positive.
When talking about Material Girl:
“Say what you want about its inherent campiness, but there’s no denying that “Material Girl” is an 80s pop gem.”
When talking about Rebel Heart:
“Other highlights, like “Unapologetic Bitch” and “Body Shop,” work on the strength of Madonna’s sheer will and performance savvy. In lesser hands, they would’ve gone full camp (though I’m sure she wouldn’t have had a huge problem with that, either) and, in terms of a listening experience you can invest in, gone off the rails pretty quickly.”
In other words, “the song may be camp but it’s a bang, and these Rebel Hearts songs, in other hands, would have sounded really camp, but they don’t, *fortunately*, and that’s why I am praising them”.
Considering Madonna’s impact not just as an artist but as a gay icon, and especially, how influential she’s been for so many gay guys (myself included) who, thanks to her, felt more encouraged to express — and simply be —themselves, I’m not sure your realise the weight and implications of what you are saying.
Using the word camp to describe her work is not only an unfortunate choice of word in the circumstances but it’s also predominantly tinged with straight male privilege.
I seem to be constantly refreshing my feed to see uf the final installment is out yet 👀👀👀
I can confirm your persistence will soon pay off ;)
Wow, some great albums in here, she really is prolific. Some great albums in here too. Although I love vinyl I love seeing this and clicking on Spotify too.
Cheers Jon!
Well Matt, I've not been a fan of Madonna's last few albums so those two would go right to the bottom for me. I was in my last year of college when "Like a Virgin" was released. People in my circles were pretty into the whole album. I think the wider culture had a harder time with the "sexy" video for the title track than the song itself. Most of the tunes on the album were very catchy making for a fun pop album. Not adventurous as some of her others but satisfying at the time. I agree that the last three songs are a bit forgettable.
Thanks for chiming in, Dan. Lots of support for Like a Virgin in the comments, I do enjoy seeing grassroots support for records when I do these series. :)
"Were the Reagan days that puritanical? Were parents back then that afraid of young women being open about their sexuality? Let me know what I’m missing in the comments."
In a word: YES. It's hard to overstate the sort of perpetual state of moral panic people were in over what the kids were doing. Things that wouldn't even make you blink today were the stuff of scandals.
Also: Fair point about Like A Virgin's Side B, though I'd make the case that Dress You Up (B1) is one of her all time best.
Thanks for commenting Kevin! I appreciate the view on “Dress You Up,” defs catchy
I just could not get into Madame x.
I refer to Madame X as Portugese Life and while it's definitely not my favorite, there are some gems on there. The overuse of autotune really turned me off so a track like "Extreme Occident" where I feel like her real voice shines through, is just so good.
But yes, i do agree, it's one of her least accessible albums.
I co-sign the "overuse of autotune" sentiment.
My husband kind of got into it - was Crave on that album? He likes that song